Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? I trust it and have never had a callback. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. We recommend our users to update the browser. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. I also used the Kerdi drain. The main issue caused by non-waterproof cement boards is the eventual warping and damage to the tiles, making it difficult and costly to fix without removing all the tile and starting over. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. As a contractor, I have been using Kerdi since it came out. It only takes a minute to sign up. Schluter approves their waterproof Kerdi membrane over drywall. I set the Kerdi with my hands, pat it into the thinset with my hands, then go over it with a 4" taping knife held at a low angle to embed the Kerdi in the thinset. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). The kerdi membrane will probably do the same, and its regularly installed over drywall which is probably less stable. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. Kerdi on shower curbs - JLC-Online Forums ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? x 60 in. No, that doesn't sound right. Step 1: Measure the area. Once all that is completed and the Aquadefense has dried, you can install your tile with a polymer modified mortar meeting the ANSI requirements of A118.4 or A118.11. Seams and joints should also be waterproofed and caulked to prevent water from seeping through. Bathroom closets are often catch-alls for anything and everything remotely related to self-care. This is a bit difficult to answer as it depends on the particular application for the floor system. In general, the Schlter system is typically more expensive than a cement board, and some people may find this an attractive option for its long lasting, easy to maintain qualities. Kerdi Board panels have a number of other advantages: they can be cut to size using an ordinary utility knife, can be glued or screwed into place, and are very lightweight. When it comes to using thinset with Schluter products, the Schluter-Systems website recommends using unmodified thin-set mortars specifically designed for use with Schluter membranes. Shower walls construction made easy with Kerdi-Board panels. - La Tuilerie Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. Step 7: Cut the Tile. #2 - Your suggestion has plenty of merit though. You peeled it off? Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. Fixing that is not that easy though. Kerdi Questions and Answers - Kennedy Kitchens & Baths A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. Yup! It works well, is what Schluter recommends and I've never had an issue with it. #3 This is a DIY site. Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. Wedi vs. Kerdi Waterproof Membranes: Which Is Better? Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! The boards come in three-foot by five-foot and four-foot by eight-foot panels, sized for efficient use in bathrooms. But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. As fiber cement board is similar to regular cement board, it makes sense to choose the one that is cheaper or more readily available. This is the traditional tile backer. you should still water proof with a liquid membrane product like RedGuard. Shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or so. I still wet the walls first. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. If you are looking for a way to minimize height buildup and eliminate a large level difference at thresholds, a mat product is a good solution. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. I just a few weeks ago put kerdi on top of hardi-board in my shower and it was PAINFUL! A place where magic is studied and practiced? Cross your fingers and hope it's all OK. Not the best Kerdi Showcase. Hello D Zak! The mortar does . True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving independently? Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. To put things into perspective, consider that a tile floor is made up of three layers: the subfloor, the underlayment, and the tile surface you walk on. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. Modified vs. Unmodified Mortar With Kerdi Membranes With cement board as a substrate, the key is to ensure proper installation of the membrane. Their lighter weight makes moving panels around during installation a cinch, which is a far cry from the heft of conventional cement board. However, a cement board is generally easier and less expensive to replace if a repair is needed. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? In a perfect job, it will waterproof. Various products can be used to waterproof shower walls such as water-resistant drywall and cement backer boards. And second, since it's foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. DensShield is one common brand. Cement board is the industry standard when it comes to tile substrates and the most preferred among professionals when installing porcelain or ceramic tile. And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). It only takes a minute to sign up. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. First, it's super lightweight compared with the rest. Kerdi Board is suitable for a number of interior applications. Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? "thanks in advance :-) I know so little about this stuff, but when I watch videos (made by schluter-kerdi) everything looks so tidy and perfect - maybe that's not realistic'''" - Lisa Jasper It should look better than that and it's hard to tell but the wall stud spacing looks extreme and more than 16" I could not see if the screw heads where covered in the photos and in the one picture you can see that the screw and washer fitting where not covered. Anyone who has done more than 1 shower shouldn't start without knowing that. Moisture resistant can cause similar problems, and there is absolutely no advantage to it. Other mistakes I was making early on:-over working the thinset. They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT is a prefabricated sloped shower tray with integrated Kerdi waterproofing. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. Can you put Kerdi over cement board? - TipsFolder.com That's the way us "Tile Guys" do it all the time. When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. The 30-in. The surface of Wedi is perfect for bonding. I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. The colour is different. Additionally, the use of modified thinset with KERDI could lead to cracks and other issues down the line as the modified thinset can shrink and pull away from the KERDI membrane over time. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! After roughly two days I would fill the corner with silicone. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? Let the mortar dry for 24 hours then test the shower. Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. Spacers are the next step. However, if installed on drywall, it only protects one side. Gettin' a little delirious. When installation is done properly, Kerdi membrane offers a waterproof barrier that can protect the plywood below from moisture. The shower is ready for tile. . Thanks to all for the feedback. I would avoid Hardi, as Avanti is right that it is thirsty. It costs more but it;s worth it for the ease of install IMO. Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. The thin-set mortar should be mixed to a fairly dry consistency and then spread on the surface with a 1/4 inch square notch trowel. The Schlter system tends to be more durable than a cement board, but it also depends on the particular application and the weather. LONDON. GoBoard is a kind of backer board because the main elements of a backer board are cement, silica, fiberglass, etc. This is necessary to ensure that the membrane will adhere properly to the drywall. If you can avoid that, the demo would be ~easy enough to maybe have some friends who'd work for beer come over and help you knock it out. First, felt paper is stapled to the floor and covered with expanded metal lath. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. Problem with very thick cement board/ tile/bullnose edge, Steam Shower Slip Joint Detail - The secret is in the boarding stage. . Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. 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Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top, and use a rolling pin to press it down and ensure a secure bond. When it comes to applying KERDI, however, it is advised to use a regular thinset that includes portland cement as its main component. Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. It allows you to easily and quickly create tile-ready elements in bathtub surrounds and platforms, vanities, showers, shelving, and much more. Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. An additional layer of sealant can also be applied on the seams for extra protection and water resistance. There's a really great manual (with diagrams) that makes this all easier to understand. To line niche shelves, for instance. But I can't give you a +1 because telling someone to mortar all the walls in a large shower is like telling them to make an ice sculpture. Required fields are marked *. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard . By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. "..2) the kerdi band isn't stuck flat -- the edges in some spots are wavy. Your real issues are the lack of proper corners on this shower. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Additionally, a liquid water-resistant membrane should be applied over all surface areas before installation. It may take more than 1 beer:). This will help you achieve the best results and ensure the longevity of your project. Some being easier to work with than others. Kerdi Membrane not sticking to cement board - John Bridge If any is found, wait a few more hours and then re-inspect. Your email address will not be published. I also used the Kerdi drain. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. Euler: A baby on his lap, a cat on his back thats how he wrote his immortal works (origin? Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. Let's start! Cement board is a heavy mess compared to drywall, and drywall is a heavy mess compared to Kerdi Board. A hundred times better to have too much before you comb than too little. We waterproof the outside the hardiboard in 99% of the install with something like redgard. What? It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried . 120 sq feet including the floor. Can you put Kerdi membrane over cement board? Can you put Kerdi membrane over plywood? - KnowledgeBurrow.com You are wise to use a cement board. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. How to adhere edge of bullnose tile to drywall as trim for shower/tub surround. #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. liquid waterproofing (redgard) over durock cement board - bathroom Thanks Paul! Why does the plumbing rough need to be moved? if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. Can you put KERDI over regular drywall? - remodelormove.com How "tidy" does the kerdi band need to be? Overall, waterproofing behind and around shower tile is a critical part of any installation to ensure that the area is adequately protected from water and moisture damage. To properly seal a cement board for a shower, its important to first properly prepare the surface. What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? Additionally, it is important to waterproof cement board before tiling, as the grout and tiles can help keep the board watertight. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top . A good rule of thumb is 24 hours per inch of thickness, then one more day on top of that to be sure. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. The Kerdi is essentially replacing the backerboard. Yes, Kerdi membrane can be installed over plywood. RedGard can be applied to cement board panels in two ways: Roll it on the wall with a 3/4-inch nap roller or spray it on the wall. It fell right off? Our thinset was more watery than the videos, but it still managed to dry out quickly, even in the time it takes to apply the small corners in our shampoo niche. Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. The manual can be found here: http://floorelf.com/waterproof, I would say unless you are experienced in working with Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing membrane kit, then I would say work with an easier waterproofing approach, either liquid waterproofing or a combination of liquid and traditional waterproofing (plastic covering the wood frame). In my. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. And second, since its foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. The tub flange can really be a pain in the butt when installing a tile tub surround. By: Author Olin Wade (Remodel or Move Stuff). We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. What precautions should I take installing tile on a backerboard in an area surrounded by cement? Slap it up comb it out, leave every ridge tall and perfect. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. there should be a small gap between the backer board and the tub. 4. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. When having to put it up on the wall or measure it for size, you will find that you can get the exact measurements you need without much trouble. Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. (3ft-3in wide). Best Cement Boards for the Shower - The Spruce Tile Backer Board Breakdown - DIYTileGuy Do you have any pictures? What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? You provide the pitch during the tile set. ;). Will use the Schluter Shower system. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? Kerdi vs Redguard cost breakdown. : r/HomeImprovement - reddit Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? Ditra is manufactured in a 3'3 width and comes in various roll lengths (54sf, 150sf, and 323 sf). Will add it in. Overall, putting Kerdi over regular drywall can be done, with the proper steps in place to properly install the membrane and its components. This will ensure that the coating sticks to the cement board. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. See the foam bench and the corners. Anytime Mongo. Hi.I have a unique situation. Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. Yeah it seems that the only products that will be compatible with cement board and the kerdi membrane are bostik ditra-set and schluter all-set (or one of schluters other products). What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? link to How To Organize A Bathroom Closet. Sealing the tub flange for tile: 3 methods - DIYTileGuy I imagine we could share some good stories. vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? Why do you think each board should be able to move at all let alone independently? Installation; As the GoBoard is very lightweight, it becomes easy to . How to Install Kerdi Membrane - YouTube Like the example above. In jobsite conditions and over a long time, who knows. Make sure to use multiple coats, if necessary. In the worst case, it's OK to cut the Kerdi, remove the damaged section, scrape up the thinset from the areas, and set a new piece of Kerdi. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board. But a mortar bed does have advantages. Start by cleaning the cement board with a mineral oil soap; this will help reduce mold and mildew growth throughout the life of the shower. KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in . You still use metal lath, but then mix bags of powder and pour the soupy mix onto the floor. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. To waterproof Hardie board, you should choose a quality sealer that is designed for use on cement-based sidings. With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board: What Are The Major Differences? How do I connect these two faces together? ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. Once its applied, the last step is to follow up the waterproof coating with a waterproof sealant. WATCH HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TRLd2HYhbU&list=PLO47JMsdYGrkxM_ZkOc3lMnsVhTqj80bB#justdoityourself #lovingit #p. Preparing drywall for KERDI membrane requires a few important steps to ensure a successful application. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. The Kerdi/Daltile TS underlayments do have some valid applications such as in steam shower installations where a bullet proof vapor barrier is required. The bag says Mapei floortile mortar, it was the only unmodified thinset at our hardware store. Welcome to the site. Hi David. It is also widely available and a relatively inexpensive option approximately $10 for a 3-foot by 5-foot sheet. Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. The completed assembly takes the place of more traditional backer board when installed over 3/4-inch wood subfloors. Greenboard is the same as regular drywall.