1 Reply Ziff-A-Dee-Dew-Law 4 yr. ago [7] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake.[9]. Since women dont inherit a Y chromosome, they must trace their paternal line through their fathers, brothers or paternal uncles Y-chromosome data. [4]:81 T. F. O'Rahilly argues that Niall and his sons were responsible for the breakup of the ancient kingdom of Ulster and the creation of the kingdoms of Tr Chonaill and Tr Egan, and the satellite kingdom of the Airgalla. Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person,[3]:70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. For it is said his was the host referred to by the Roman poet, Claudian, when in praising the Roman general, Stilicho, he says Britain was protected by this bold general. [2] He was himself the grandson of King Conn of the Hundred Battles. The geneticists estimated that there are about 2-3 million males alive today who descend in the male-line from Niall. People wanting to join this group must be managing a Ydna test from a male relative who has tested at FTdna for a Ydna test and got the little symbol that says they descend from Niall and The Nine Hostages. Take a look inside Dublin's most stylish townhouse, Number 31, Irish songs to avoid this St. Patricks Day, JFK's words remind us of the true meaning of St. Patrick's Day. Niall belongs to Haplogroup R1b1c7 (M222). [3] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart ("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages. an outstanding beauty, dressed in purple (the colour of royalty) and wearing [10] nna's son Eochaid is named as Niall's killer in all sources, although the circumstances vary. Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne and Coirpre. Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. Three of his sons founded kingdoms in Ulster (collectively the Northern Ui Neill), other sons founded kingdom in the Irish midlands (the Southern Ui Neill). [6] These sons are the eponymous ancestors of the various U Nill dynasties: Egan of the Cenl nEgain and Conall Gulban of the Cenl Conaill, making up the northern U Nill; Fiachu of the Cenl Fiachach dynasty, Legaire (the king who Saint Patrick is said to have converted) of the Cenl Legaire, Maine of the U Maine, Egan of the Cenl nEgain, Conall Cremthainne of the Clann Cholmin and the Sl nedo Sline, and Coirpre of the Cenl Coirpri, making up the southern U Nill. His reign was epochal. Because of that, the identification of M222 with Niall's descendants is "difficult to justify". Eochaidh had been banished as the King of Leinster and had plans to be the High King of Ireland. certainty, even if its founder is not. For more information, please see our Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person,[2]:70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. [17] The Scottish Clan Ewen of Otter, Gilchrist; Clan Lamont; the MacSorleys of Monydrain,[18] (of Clan MacDonald of Dunnyveg a branch of Clan Donald); Clan Maclachlan; Clan MacNeil, and the MacSweens all claim a descent from an Irish prince of the O'Neill dynasty, nrothn Ua Nill/Anrothan O'Neill, son of ed, son of Flaithbertach Ua Nill, King of Ailech and Cenl nEgain, who left Ireland for Kintyre in the 11th century and died 1036. Hughes says "Niall himself must have died not before the middle of the fifth century". [2] A poem by the 11th-century poet Cined Ua Hartacin in the Book of Leinster credits Niall with seven raids on Britain, on the last of which he was killed by Eochaid "above the surf of the Ictian Sea";[2][13] a poem attributed to the same poet in Lebor na hUidre credits him with going to the Alps seven times. But claiming that you're descended from Niall of the Nine Hostages is BS, because even if it were true, there is no proof. The little Irish (Scotic) colony in that part of Alba just opposite to Antrim had gradually been growing in numbers, strength, and prestigeuntil they excited the jealousy and enmity of the Picts, who tried to crush them. [4], [edit]L egendary biography[edit ]Early life, Although it is anachronistic for Niall's mother to have been a Saxon, O'Rahilly argues that the name Cairenn is derived from the Latin name Carina, and that it is plausible that she might have been a Romano-Briton. 5 Reply [deleted] 4 yr. ago Oh, got it. only water for refreshment but also kingship and a great dynasty. For more information, please see our children, from wives or concubines, were acknowledged. Niall of the Nine Hostages received his name from the taking of hostages as a strategy for playing mental havoc upon his opponent chieftains. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. Across the island as a whole, a different sub-clade the M269 pattern is Also known as: Niall Nogiallach King of Ireland. [13], While Niall is high king, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. Occasional control of all the island. [6] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. Based on U Nill genealogies and the dates given for his supposed sons and grandsons, modern historians believe he is likely to have lived some 50 years later than the traditional dates, dying circa 450. So, too, do about 1-in-50 New Yorkers of European heritage, reflecting Only Niall kisses her properly, and she is revealed as a beautiful maiden, the Sovereignty of Ireland. "In the fifth century, the place was occupied by Niall of the Nine Hostages and it was here that his pagan son, King Laoghaire, was supposed to have been confronted by St. Patrick. According to legend, Niall led one of the most powerful and enduring Irish kingdoms and it has been suggested that because of high rates of Irish emigration to North America and other parts of the world, up to two or three million men descend from Niall! There is nothing weird about someone with 0.00% measurable Irish ethnicity being one of his descendants. passed from father to son. The story then becomes confused. Legaire, High King of Ireland+ d. 463 (1), http://www.thepeerage.com/p11402.htm#i114018, -----------------------------------------------, Further information: U Nill descendants. [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. 279. r/23andme. Medb, for example, was said to have participated in a ritual union with nine of the high kings, preventing the rule of any candidates who refused to mate with her. [6] Mongfind appears to have been a supernatural personage: the saga "The Death of Crimthann mac Fidaig" says the festival of Samhain was commonly called the "Festival of Mongfind", and prayers were offered to her on Samhain eve.[11]. [3 ] However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. [2]:81, T. F. O'Rahilly argues that Niall and his sons were responsible for the breakup of the ancient kingdom of Ulster and the creation of the kingdoms of Tir Conaill and Tir Egan, and the satellite kingdom of the Airgalla.[6]:pp. Irish tradition had forgotten that the Romans once ruled Britain, and relocated his remembered confrontations with the Empire to continental Europe, with Alba, the ancient name for Britain, being confused with Elpa, the Alps, or being understood with its later meaning of Scotland. We're British/Irish soldiers stationed in Sicily? He conquered the Uliad aristocracy, which ruled in Ulster, and by this victory and subsequent consolidation of power was able to found a dynasty, the Ui Neill, which gave rise to the O'Neill clan. Distant view of Round Tower at Glendalough Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. Donnelly, Egan, Flynn, Gallagher, Gormley, Hynes, Kane, McGovern, McLoughlin, Niall of the Nine Hostages leapt from the legends of Ireland [23] Origin of his epithet[edit] There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. As the Celtic language in Ireland transformed into Irish between AD 400500, Venii became Fni, and were also known to have called themselves Gadhil (from Common Celtic *wdelos, Brythonic gwddel, Goidelic *wdus to Old Irish Godelmeaning savage woodsman, wild, raider). By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. McManus, Molloy, Reilly, Rourke and Quinn. Their father, who was looking on (and who, say some, designedly caused the fire, to test his sons), observed with interest Neill's distinctiveness of character, his good sense and good judgment. mutations (changes) occur infrequently but, when they do, they help to The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinsterare not reliably recorded but have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. the modern surnames associated with the Ui Neill include (with or without the O It is now more commonly referred to as the Northwest Irish/Lowland Scots variety. Watch a video of a lecture presented at Genetic Genealogy Ireland conference to learn more about research by the O'Neill DNA Group: here. Niall fitted out a large fleet and sailed to the assistance of his people. Geni requires JavaScript! The M222 pattern is a lot rarer in the south of the island. Article in The Times: "High King Niall: the most fertile man in Ireland", http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article788652.ece. Y-DNA is The Royal History of Ireland. All but two of the High Kings of Tara came from this family. [5] Mongfind appears to have been a supernatural personage: the saga "The Death of Crimthann mac Fidaig" says the festival of Samhain was commonly called the "Festival of Mongfind", and prayers were offered to her on Samhain eve. [27], There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. Seeing Niall's popularity among the nobles, Mongfind demands that Eochaid name a successor, hoping it will be one of her sons. strongest associations are with the surnames traditionally linked to the Ui When Niall grows up he returns to Tara and rescues his mother from her labour. Niall of the Nine Hostages, (in Irish, Niall Naoi Nogiallach) is a quasi-historical character in Ireland's story. In the highly patriarchal society of medieval Ireland, their status allowed them to have outsized numbers of children and spread their paternal lineage each generation. Each brother in turn goes looking for water, and finds a well guarded by a hideous hag who demands a kiss in return for water. The story then becomes confused. Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. After reading through their ancestry reports from 23andMe, customers can now browse Airbnb homes and experiences in their native countriesand plan vacations as unique as their DNA. 3 days ago. He not only ruled Ireland greatly and strongly, but carried the name and the fame, and the power and the fear, of Ireland into all neighboring nations. We've all technically got "common ancestor" with Niall because we've all got a common paternal ancestor. Niall and his dynasty. 85% of Irish men belong to a paternal lineage called R1b1b2, but since this line is also common across the rest of western Europe, it doesnt definitively determine if a man has Irish ancestry. No, if he's M222, his paternal line almost certainly came to Italy from Ireland and/or Britain. In addition to the 100 participants, famous Irish names also participated including former Taoiseach [Prime Minister] of Ireland Enda Kenny and former Minister of State Michael Ring. The Eochaidh who shot the fatal arrow had been King of Leinster, was banished to Alba by Niall, and accompanied Gabhran, Scots Kings #5, chief of the Dal Riada, when Gabhran took troops to France to support an expedition of Niall. absence of a DNA sample direct from the man himself, Trinity's team of What is a maternal line? [4] The later Annals of the Four Masters dates his reign to 379405,[5] and the chronology of Geoffrey Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn to 368395. Nearly 37 million Americans claim to have Irish heritage according to a national survey conducted in 2009. Niall, the son of Ivocatus Magumedonus ('Eochaidh the Slave-ruler'), came to lead the Connachta in the fifth century AD.[8]. Niall exiles him to Scotland. [3] However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. In January 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. The signature is especially Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. His name comes from a tale of nine hostages that he held from the regions he ruled over. A son of Niall, who succeeded his father at Tara circa 427-430, welcomed St. Patrick to his court in 432. This was expected of someone of his status in a polygamous society where all There is nothing weird about someone with 0.00% measurable Irish ethnicity being one of his descendants. The sources for the details of Niall's life are genealogies of historical kings, the "Roll of Kings" section of the Lebor Gabla renn, Irish annals such as the Annals of the Four Masters, chronicles such as Geoffrey Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn, and legendary tales like "The Adventure of the Sons of Eochaid Mugmedon" and "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages". The sept stronghold was at Durna Shelca, near (Carnfree) in County Roscommon. Privacy Policy. County Mayo folks have Viking blood as well as that of Niall of the Hostages. There is a large community of M222 men and a very interesting "family tree" of sorts is emerging as these men get into Y-DNA testing. Boyle, Bradley, Campbell, Cannon, Coleman, Connor, Devlin, Doherty, Donnell, Worst case scenario, fwiw I think I can transfer my DNA over to FTDNA and I should have my haplogroup like asap. That is to say, after 6-10 generations, you will lose track of entire ancestors and their ethnicity. fought his way to become King of Tara in the late 4th or early 5th century. I believe you may be interested in the first fully illustrated children's book about Niall of the Nine Hostages. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. In I'm stuck at R-P311 and 23andme gives Niall of the Nine Hostages which is flat out DUMB. [ 11] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. [12], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the high kingship. [7]:216217 Keating describes her not as a Saxon but as the "daughter of the king of Britain". Yet his fall in a foreign land was to be compassed, not by the strategy or might of the foreign enemy, but by the treachery of one of his own. (Remember that women have two X chromosomes while men have one X and one Y chromosome). The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. A subreddit about all things genealogy provided it's not about living people. niall of the nine hostages 23andme. Annals of the Kingdom of Ireland by the Four Masters, from the Earliest Period to the Year 1616, eDIL: electronic Dictionary of the Irish Language, Aided Chrimthainn meic Fhidaig 7 Tr Mac Echach Muigmedin, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Niall_of_the_Nine_Hostages&oldid=1139858317. When Maximus and his Roman legions were, in consequence of the barbarian pressure upon the Continental Roman Empire, withdrawing from Britain, Niall, with his Irish hosts and Pictish allies, treaded upon their hurrying heels." [20] suggesting that his Y chromosomal signature had been discovered, popular science journalists and genetic testing companies began promoting the theory that millions alive today have an unbroken descent from Niall.[21]. [3 ] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages. The geneticists estimated that there are about 2-3 million males alive today who descend in the male-line from Niall. In Irish Kings and High Kings (Dublin, 1973), John Francis Byrne prefers a much earlier date for Niall's death and also suggests the Three Collas never existed. Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. Oliver Hayes. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. She grants Niall not only water but the kingship for many generationstwenty-six of his descendants will be High Kings of Ireland. Keating, quoting a Latin Life of Saint Patrick, says that Niall led Irish raids on Roman Britain, and in one of those raids Patrick and his sisters were abducted. Or is it just bs from 23andMe? Within our second panel of markers the most distinctive difference from the R1b Modal is the 15,16,16,17 at DYS 464. In my case, my maternal line, traced through mitochondrial DNA that I inherited from my mother (thanks Mom! He is known in folklore as a raider of the British and French coasts. [7] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. All sources agree he died outside Ireland. Maternal lines are inherited through mitochondrial DNA both women and men have mitochondrial DNA, but its only the mothers mitochondrial DNA that is passed on to a child. reveals herself as Flaithus, the sovereignty of Ireland, and grants Niall not Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. He is presumed to have been a real person, but most of the information about him that has come down to us is legendary. She will Of their Irish sample, the geneticists found that 21 percent of men from north-western Ireland, 8 percent from all of Ireland, a substantial percentage of men from western and central Scotland, and about 2 percent of men from New York bore the same Y-chromosome haplotype. [2] The chronology of Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn broadly agrees, dating his reign from 368-395, and associating his raiding activities in Britain with the kidnapping of Saint Patrick (ca. [6]:216-217 Keating describes her not as a Saxon but as the "daughter of the king of Britain". We have a common ancestor that 23andMe says is the progenitor of the "Niall of Nine Hostages" dynasty, together with almost 3 million other British Isles males. Niall Nogallach ( pronounced [nil noilx]; Old Irish "having nine hostages "), [1] or Niall of the Nine Hostages, was a legendary, semi-historical Irish king who was the ancestor of the U Nill dynasties that dominated Ireland from the 6th to the 10th centuries. [8], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the high kingship. The center of his government was at Tara. gene. This "loathly lady" motif appears in myth and folklore throughout the world. [15 ], There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. Of Niall's youth there are many legends, but one in particular show the working of his destiny. They should really stop doing that, the Niall of the Nine Hostages haplogroup is actually R1b-L21 (M222) which is way downstream . findings led them to the notion that Niall of the Nine Hostages may be the Big 390-460). That slave would later escape and go to become Ireland's patron.
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