Edited November 11, 2020 by seadog. RCA outputs with the optional output module Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance > 600 High Gain setting. CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE | Page 887 - Head-Fi Up to 8X DSD the Extreme has some special optimization for USB. Can it output a Low or High Voltage on a single pin in a bitstream? I still did not found better audio source. frequency response graphs, CSD waterfall plots, subjective gear reviews. of the 5 systems are completely different, our rooms are completely different I wish you would have had the Totaldac D1 Seven to try. Audiogon Discussion Forum will every hear. Also, it is worth noting I heard the v1 DAC 2X, not the v2. So yes it's a question of being polite, but it's also about acknowledging the limitations inherent in making absolute pronouncements about differences between high performing components. There are a lot of people that absolutely love the M-scaler. An exploration of Chord DAVE, MScaler, Qutest, and Holo May, HQPlayer I did have the BADA Ref in my system for a short audition, and the Trinity And CH Precision C1 for a longer stay during a previous iteration of my system. As a contented Qutest user, I would have hoped for "improved", performance from the Dave. And I make Best DAC Quality Ranking list. I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick @yyzsantabarbara, your dealer quote is interesting, I suspected that the Mola Mola was that good. johndoe21ro dCS Bartok>Chord DAVE>MSB discrete discreteR2R R2R DAVE BartokdCSBartok The evolution of the original irreverent and irrelevant and non-authoritative site for headphone measurements, i.e. As you mentioned imaging better, incredible PRaT with MSB. The DAC comes equipped with a single power supply, but can be augmented with a second discrete power supply to enable optimized power isolation between all major components. When connecting to the MScaler, Dual-BNC was used on the chord dacs with shawline digital BNC cables. I have had Dave in my system. @smodtactical I would not take price as any arbitrator of quality, especially nowadays. And this is where I had a problem with this DAC, though mostly the problem was of my own making. MSB are an American brand headed up by the brothers Jonathan and Daniel Gullman and located in Silicon Valley, California where they design and build a range of amplifiers, transports, and DACs. The other stand out dacs that we like are the Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. Each clock is made up of two independent clocks but only one is used at any given time so as not to add unwanted noise to the circuit. 2001-2023 Head-Fi.org. MSB DACs also use a processing chip to handle oversampling and digital filtering (not sure if this chip is an FPGA or other type processing chip, but it is a high speed digital processing chip). However, there are also products that manage to straddle both sides of the electric fence (whilst being careful not to electrocute their nether regions) and give us a tremendously enjoyable reproduction of a recording whilst remaining true to the source material. Put simply, your DAC is ready for the future. The lo-res display also makes menu ]set-up fiddly because it doesn't have enough space to display words. Im sure it does have a flavour of its own, but from my standpoint, it sounds like a very neutral and transparent DAC. For the most part, I listened to the MSB through our LAB12 and Krell KST100 amps and TotalDAC D100 speakers. Sent from my SM-G928V using Computer Audiophile mobile app. Then just stay with the basic Premier unit, and the power supply that comes with it. Our publication is supported by its audience. The Premier is a super-high-resolution, completely silent, utterly dynamic component that lets music flow through it less hindered than through anything else I've heard. For sure with Hugo and Qutenot even debatable. The clock can be seen as being the heart of the DAC and once again the clocks are made in-house. That is not to say that a preamp doesn't produce value with respect to other sound quality characteristics that may affect the personal appeal of the musical reproduction (e.g., soundstage), or that the extra transparency won't reveal system issues, but there is no question that transparency is higher when going straight to the amps. Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream IGNORED Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream . I own the MSB Select II with the dual powerbases and 33 Femto Clock. I agree with your statement. They are excellent pairing. The Chord Qutest DAC has the same DAC architecture and filters as the Chord Hugo 2. Thanks. lastly; what I compare my MSB Select II to every day is my top level vinyl and top level reel to reel tape. Copyright Hifi Pig and Hifi Pig Magazine, Big Pig Media LLP. Concluding that there is some kind of problem with using an FPGA vs. what MSB does is not technically supportable. Sonically, it is akin to the old straight wire with gain only in the digital realm. To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned What I do know is that the MSB brings an excellent level of performance by way of neutrality to a system that allows other parts of the system to do their thing its sort of the digital equivalent of a very (very) good cartridge. Stay updated on Bloom Audio at their. First let me preface my comments by stating that I have not heard a lot of high end DACs in my system. If you currently have an MSB DAC or amplifier that you lovebut are looking to experience more from your systemplease reach out to your local dealer. connection because it eliminates some parts and gets you closer to a direct Tailored for both the transport and the DACs daily use, our remote brings you closer to the music you love. as my Select II sits it would list for $116,450. It's embarrassing. The bottom line for me is that great DACs can make a difference over good DACs. Of course your opinion on sound quality is your own, and valid, but to suggest that the reason for the difference is because the Chord is an "FPGA DAC" is technically incorrect. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends.. Gbel High End [Divin Noblesse], [Divin Marquis], ([Epoque Aeon Fine]). How does it compare? You go off people's opinions and hope it'll match your equipment and system when you put the hard earned down. This leaner and cleaner edge has the effect of adding a level of perceived detail to the listening experience. Nice. The Discrete is a genuine high fidelity DAC and a fabulously built one to boot, add in the modular input flexibility and you have a pretty stunning product with excellent future proofing. I hope to also have an opportunity to listen to a T+A DAC8 (for DSD512) and a Chord Dave (DSD256) in my system soon (with HQPlayer). Is this what passes for high end? The Discrete DAC Features - MSB Technology Complete electrical isolation It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam. I mean is it audibly noticeable? The video cannot be shown. The sonic signature is detailed and yet easy to listen to, with the Discrete bringing a sense of the recordings scale (big or small) to the listening experience. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. Hmm.. I had the DAVE for 3years, it is an amazing DAC. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd. With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. Nothing was amiss. Toggle signature. Any MSB fans here ? - Page 3 - DAC - Digital to Analog Conversion But then we have to apply the law of diminishing returns. The world's largest high-end audio community. Although I would like to keep this as close to $10-12K as possible. But MSB Select 2 is regarded by many as the best thats why for something 1/10 of the price to compete in anyones eyes is quite an accomplishment. The DAVE DAC does not perform anywhere near where it should. You must log in or register to reply here. Superior conversion begins with clean and stable low-noise power. It's UPDATE VIDEO THREE for the Chord Electronics DAVE DAC REVIEW I have spent a lot more time with the DAVE Dac, still using. Best DACs comparison test result [[My Subjective Opinion]] Msb discrete dac vs dcs bartok - wfi.pizzeria-kandel.de Will do. Since this forum is mainly USA based and we are in the UK, I have very little to gain business wise here. Was it a speaker setup or headphone setup? CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE | Page 934 - Head-Fi.org The Discrete Power Supply feeds the DAC with dual low-noise power streams that are linear and independent. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/members/mikejazz/, funded this campain: http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. This ranking is just my subjective thinking. With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. It is a manual step which I forgot. Ill go through the modules included in the Discrete DAC and explain a little about each. Up to 1km lossless transmission. I have listened to MSB Analog DAC and Diamond DAC IV but not in the same setup as DAVE. Im getting a bit away from the review proper, but Im sure you can see why I have added that little diversion. Roon Endpoint I've had many world class DACS in my studio over the years and the Crane Song is as good as any no matter the cost. @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? Like the rest of the main body of the DAC and the PSUs, the remote is hewn from a block of aluminium. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. The next module is the display which is a cool and easy-to-read LED that is slaved to the audio clock. MSB Discrete Dac with one additional basic power supply. - MQA decoding. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. But dont take our word for it. Strangely from this company is lack of any anti-aliasing on the text causing pixels to not be seen in the fonts chosen! Chord DAVE - DAC - Digital to Analog Conversion - Audiophile Style And differences at that level can be good. MSB Technology's Discrete DAC was the best DAC I'd heard in my systemuntil the MSB Premier showed up. The best upgrade for Dave easy. There is scale on bigger productions and intimacy on smaller-scale recordings and pieces, It wont make a pigs ear into a sows purse, but its majestic on really good recordings, Its very detailed but not harshly so actually, its a very easy component to fit in a system and live with, Its not cheap and you will want both PSUs once you compare with just one, No analogue inputs to make it the heart of a full system, You know that MSB have stuff that is out of reach financially and potentially better, Price: 11,000 plus 1,650 for a second power supply. With two prime DACs, the MSB Discrete yields an unprecedented level of detail that reproduces the musicality, soundstage and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. Many competing DACs will have a more comprehensive display at this price and, more commonly still, an app designed for intuitive access via smartphone and/or tablets. Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. Its headphone amplifier is good but no match for higher powered units. The main reason we took on Rockna was because their Once populated, the circuit boards are made into modules and then placed inside the casework. However, its also very nice to listen to in this system, though I would say it is more accurate/true to the original DAC than our LAB12 DAC or perhaps our Lampizator BIG 7. The world's largest high-end audio community. Well build a personalized offer for your existing MSB products that count towards a new DAC or amplifier. Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. Any owners around here? When we set out to make the MSB remote, the design was built from the ground up. Thank you, Mike. But the majority of the time all 6 of By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. It is worth every penny. A fully balanced, ultra-high precision, discrete ladder DAC architecture ensures each note tells a story. There are so. In that time, weve pushed the industry forward with each product weve built, redefining whats possible. Wavedream only has a couple hours on it, but from the first note it And this level of detail the MSB Discrete brings to the listening experience was carried through everything I listened toand I listened to this DAC a lot, with it being the only thing I used to for a solid two weeks. Is it too hot to touch? Actual auditioning of the unit prior to purchase is paramount. Let us do the work of refurbishing and finding your current electronics a new hometheyll continue to be enjoyed for years to come. They both use FPGA for their decoding. The DAVE is very resolving, but thinner tonally in comparison to the EMM Labs. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. this was how I originally decided to purchase the Select II as I was trying to hear another dac at shows that could do what I heard the Select II doing at a lower price. heard, I could easily live with the Aeris, Dave, or Wavedream. subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with Please specify coaxial S/PDiF or optical S/PDiF. It may not display this or other websites correctly. It's too damn expensive, full stop. But even with great preamps, a great DAC in a low noise environment, will produce a more transparent sound going direct to the amps than through the preamp. The modular nature of the Discrete and other MSB DACs is very clever and I assume this goes a good way towards giving it such a neutral and detailed sound, where no one part is interfering with what the other is doing. "OK, it would be. For such a high entry price I wouldn't take the gamble to go on some recommendation by a stranger whose tastes I don't know. I would have loved if you heard them in the same system for a direct comparison. The jump from Six to Seven is rather large. As I listen to this tune a few times it strikes me that the Discrete is just that (discrete), it doesnt seem to add a great deal of itself to the file it is playing. The SQ from DAC headphone output is lower than the best headphone amplifier but that kind of amplifier costs close to DAVE itself. Were honored to be recognized by the industry for bringing you the most lifelike sound we can. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. Digital: Jay's Audio CDT2 MK2 CD transport, Modified MHDT Labs Balanced Pagoda DAC. The DAC has two modes; multi-bit PCM and single-bit discrete DSD mode. This is a dealers email comment to me about comparisons he did. Too many DACs> Too many amps> Too many headphones. By Talking of cool lets talk about this remote. And yes, you can improve it more by adding nice power source and cable. It will kick your ass. I hate to repeat myself, but there are no absolutes in audio, only preferences. "To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned - Meat Loaf. Funny how Rob Watts drones on and on about noise modulation, and then we see his product performing like this.. now one might not exactly call this noise modulation, but it definitely something to avoid, especially given the price tag. For some folk, a highly resolving and accurate system may well be described as being over-analytical, and on the other side of the audio fence, some will suggest that some systems sound nice but flawed. Id imagine that upscaling refers to increasing bit-depth (like from 16 to 24 bits) which adds "vertical" resolution to the waveform in theory, improving amplitude resolution making subtle low-level detail more natural and audible (among other things) if done correctly. More to follow. I was upgrading it in this order and still could not believe every time it sounded better. Btw, my MSB friend and I used the internal analog preamp for MSB and built-in digital preamp for DAVE. DAVE stands for 'Digital to Analogue Veritas in Extremis', a moniker that best reflects the product's . This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. It doesnt get too hot to touch. That statement makes sense in an analog paradigm. I have the Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC, waiting for an upgrade. more might come to mind and I will add them. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. First I want to say that I fully agree that the hobby is As the topic suggests, looking for comparisons on the above Dacs from people who have atleast heard and compared 2 of these dacs. I listen mostly to classical music, particularly with symphonic work, I prefer DAVE to MSB. but with digital things change quickly, and a month ago I got a new server, the SGM Extreme. Rori is definitely welcome. Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). and as I said earlier there is no "best" when it comes to dacs or So, essentially, around the back of this DAC we have XLR output modules, dual power inputs (more on this in a moment) the digital input module (XLR, RCA, and two optical), and the USB input. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Never use!! They are all excellent DACs and at that level of performance, it's ultimately about system synergy, personal preferences and the limitations of our hearing. With a better matched preamp presence may be acceptable. Besides that the MSB looks so much better. very important and our preference connection is an i2S connection. We feel Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna MSBs top-level DAC is 121K and there are other brands out there offering very expensive options, but the truth is that the vast majority of people will never feel the need to spend that kind of money (even if they could) to eek out that last-minute bit of detail. Regular readers will appreciate all that is taken from the MSB website and I make no apologies for not really understanding the electronics. Analogue Volume Control 1dB from 0 to 106 Deactivable by menu, Dimensions ChassisWidth : 432 mmDepth: 305 mmHeight without feet: 51 mm. It seems to take in zeros and ones and then somehow make sense of these and just convert them into faithful reproductions of the recording though me not being at the recording of any of the records I listened to, thats my assumption coming into play. auditioned the Rockna Wavedream Edition DAC. Both DACs connected directly to power amp using each DACs volume controle. Set up is key, cables are super important, server is also The end result is a digital experience defying expectations. The modular nature of MSB products allows you to have the bits you want and leave out those you dont, The display is a bit basic but it does what it needs to and you can see it from the other side of the room, Detail and transparency are the main features, Allows a real insight into the makeup of a track, Brings a sense of timing being bang on the money, Detail isnt a result of the higher frequencies being artificially pushed, Both PSUs are not absolutely necessary but once you remove one you want to put the other back in. I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive, I have heard the Dave and EMM Labs DAC2x up against aMakua that I subsequently purchased. You are using an out of date browser. Yes, definitely, as it is those extra tiny little bits of detail that adds the cherry on top of an already rather splendid slice of musical cake brought out on tracks like the audio show mainstay Keith Dont Go from Acoustic Live by Nils Lofgren. The Dave is VERY lovely on PCM, and pretty decent on DSD, but DSD is not its raison d'etre. Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet >Antipodes K30> Shunyata Omega USB> Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120, Amp& Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 >Aerial 10T, Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra,ShunyataDenali v1 andTyphon power conditioners,Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma power cords, QSA Lanedri GammaRevelationinterconnect,Shunyata SigmaEthernet,MIT Matrix HD60speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels. has 20 hours on it. And this is what separates the very good from the excellent piece of audio equipment. Pass Labs INT-60. Out of all of the DACs I've Then we have the Integrated Clock module and Im starting to get the whole modular approach to the design of the MSB DAC. Right now my favorite DACs in my system are the Pacific Microsonics Model 2 (for PCM), Phasure NOS1a (for PCM), Meridian Ultra (for MQA), and the Playback Designs MPS5 (for DSD128). I have Chord Dave and Blu2 too. Rori It may not display this or other websites correctly. One name that was thrown around by a few people I know is the Rockna Wavedream. For example, the chassis for the products are made from North American-sourced metals, and then that is machined using Haas CNC machines that are built in California. MQA decoding Chord DAVE Review (DAC & HP Amp) 2. The remainder Audiogon Discussion Forum Anyone make that comparison? Strangely, this new review is not displayed when you select the review folder on the homepage. Yes, you read that right, the Select DAC is the best part of 121,000! As a matter of fact, I'd appreciate getting your impressions. had if for 2 years now. But the differences between great DACs is small. JavaScript is disabled. Well, you may not have heard a lot of high-end DAC's in your system, but the one's you've listed are pretty darned good. You already have a very top tier DAC. dac at a reasonable price. Check out our support page and technical specifications > Click Here, 10100007 - Discrete DAC with Supply- Gallery - 1200px, 10100007 - Discrete DAC with Supplies - Gallery - 1200px, 10100006 - Discrete DAC - Gallery - 1200px, 10100003 - Discrete DAC Badge - Gallery - 1200px, 10100005 - Discrete DAC MSB Logo - Gallery - 1200px, 10100004 - Discrete DAC Jack Panel - Gallery - 1200px, 10100008 - Discrete DAC Basemetal - Gallery - 1200px, 10100009 - Discrete Supply Options - Gallery - 1200px, 10100010 - Discrete Supply Cover - Gallery - 1200px. A Chord DAC converts to analog via Chord's "Pulse Array DAC" which is a discrete circuit, similar to the discrete circuit used in the MSB DACs (but not the same). How is Chord Dave? | Super Best Audio Friends
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